PSDarchives.acceptablerisk

Acceptable Risk

3-26-03

I would like all sworn Police Officers, fully qualified
life saving Fire Fighters and Paramedics, as well as
those volunteers (etc) who are active members of any
form of rescue dive organization to answer this
question:

scenario -
you are alone and have just witnessed a small aircraft
crash and sink in the water with two souls onboard, you
have a minimum of diving gear in your trunk.

What would YOU do?

Consider this seriously, the scenario may be different,
but the choice may happen to YOU.

The regulations CLEARLY state one thing, your sworn
responsibility is a factor, your heart will demand
something be done and let us not forget the RESCUE
BEAST that exists in all of us.

Answer truthfully (if possible) to yourself, and if you
are brave enough, please post that reply.

What would YOU do if...

David Holland
President
UHMS - GLC

3-26-03

Not a fair quiestion. This is a loaded question full of unknowns and assuming
too much. so, in that light, I will answer your question for what I envision
to be the majority of the folks here. If I overstep I am sure my reply will
be contradicted.

******
We will call for assistance, get our gear out of our trunk and swim out to
the LSP to evaluate the situation. If a rescue opportunity presents itself
and we are capable, we will make the attempt. - Even if there is a
calculated risk to our own lives.

If I am driving down the beach road and see a swimmer drowning in the water,
I will stop, call for help and if capable try to make a rescue.

If I see a car wreck happen in front of me, I will stop, call for help and if
capable provide as much aid as possible.

If I see someone clutch their chest, fall to the ground and turn blue in a
shopping mall, I will stop, call for help and perform as much life saving
techniques as possible.

If I see an 18-wheeler on it's side with a vapor cloud surrounding it and the
driver hanging out of the door. I will stop, call for help and prevent as
many people as possible from rushing in to recover the driver.

If I see a COMMERCIAL airliner crash from significant altitude in a lake, I
will stop, call for help and WAIT.

Mark Phillips

3-26-03

I am in agreement with mark on this in that the first step would be documenting the details of the crash and initiating an E.M.S. response.

If I thought there was the potential to save a human life, I would attempt to do what I could. Of course this would involve a level of risk. If the diver were to disregard regulations and attempt a rescue they would be operating in accordance with “29 CFR 1910.401(b) Application in emergencies” I would certainly assume this would overlap good samaritan legislation in most cases as well...

In my personal opinion divers operating outside of the constraints of any formal regulation as a normal operating procedure due to funding, equipment, or training concerns are the diving equivalent of vigilantes. Most have nothing but the best intentions and limitless enthusiasm and perhaps potential but without proper training they are a liability.

Jeff

3-26-03

Hello David, I guess I would do what ever I could do to help with out
compromising the scene and endanger my self
. this properly not the answer you wanted. the other night on the way home
I came on a one car rollover I did what I could until help got there and
then I went on home. glad I carry a crash bag in my truck
grumpie

3-26-03

I could be wrong, but I think many on this list would try a rescue if
one thought there could be a save.

If you have a dive team near a GA airport(General Aviation) with water
near by it would not hurt to go talk to them. Our team has not done
this, but If a plane were to go in we would surely get a call.
Ignorance being bliss there are many that would just jump right in.

Someone noted the potency of Jet fuel. Some of us have been exposed to
this many times. It is also known as kerosene or diesel fuel. Smaller
GA aircraft usually use avgas. Just like the fuel in your car except it
may be 100 Octane Low Lead.

In pilot training, water is not the best place to set down an
aircraft(given a choice). If one is going down it is in the procedures
to shut down the electrical system, fuel and engine. Also to open a
door before imapct. The air frame is not all that strong. A door can
easily be jambed on impact making it impossible to open afterwards. The
side windows do not roll down and are plexiglass as is the front
windscreen. It is possible the front wind screen may be in the pilots
lap after impact. Speaking of doors. Some small aircraft only have one
door on the right hand side. Others have two or more and some have gull
wing doors while others may have a canopy. If the aircraft is a high
wing or low wing is also a consideration on getting to those doors.
Depending on the above configuration and its attitude underwater it may
be impossible to get to the doors.

My short answer is I would probably consider getting get.

Sincerely,
Don Alan Ruschak

3-26-03

Given the parameters as you stated. (alone and with minimum gear (assuming that means not much) I would call 911 and standby until some help arrived.
Chuck

3-26-03

agree whole heartedly Chuck, we must constantly remind ourselves that we cannot help someone if we become victims in the process. I'm just as guilty of it as the next person.................Dive safe guys/gals.

Scubado

3-26-03

My first action would be to do a Scene Survey. I would determine if it was safe for me to approach. Under the conditions you have stated, I would make sure Fire/Rescue and the County dive team was enroute, and would stand by until they arrived to make sure they had as much information I could give them.

I have to remember that my generosity to assist on a rescue, does not make

me invulnerable to the dangers of the scene. I will do the victims no good trapped in the wreckage of the submerged plane. That would prevent the next rescuers on the scene from being able to work on the first victims, because they would be working on ME.

I am not a coward, but would not enter the scene under the conditions you describe.

Our divers do not make solo dives in unknown conditions.

My best,

John Jordan / Commander

Kalamazoo County Water Safety and Recovery Dive Team

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