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Full Face Masks
Hi All!
Has anyone done any objective (or subjective) comparisons between the
Interspiro and Ocean Reef full face masks. Specifically, I am looking for
anything that would make one more applicable to 1) PSD and 2) diving in
general.
Thanks for your input.
Ken Martin,
Assistant Chief Diver
Berkeley Township Underwater Search and Rescue Unit
Bayville, NJ
6-17-02
The Divator (AGA)
manufactured by Interspiro is the
most popular mask in the PSD field.
If you have AGA's and
are getting negative feed back from the team members,
I'd lay a dollar or two
that it's a training issue. Most problems with the
mask are corrected with
training. Most can be narrowed down to improper
adjustment of the top strap.
The Scuba Pro mask isn't often considered for public
safety diving. It's a
basic full face mask, needs to be treated for
fogging, not very dry, no
positive pressure feature - even the demand version
of the AGA has a slight
positive pressure and is very dry.
The OTS communications equipment is an excellent
choice, either in through
water or hardwire. Determine the type and method of
diving that you do and
then fit the equipment to best suit your needs. OTS
has a PSD/Military rep
that can help you with any questions on the
equipment. Look them up on the
web.
www.oceantechnologysystems.com
John
6-17-02
I would strongly agree with MntDiver@aol.com
the most probable cause for
negative feed back would be a training issue, Like with almost anything
if you don't understand how it works you won't work it right. I'm amazed
at how many divers (PSD) are using gear that they have little if any know
ledge of how it works. This knowledge is essential to the PSD so that they
can
focus on the task at hand, (search) and avoid the psychological gym-
nastics of trying to problem shoot what might be just a simple adjustment
of a strap.
I have had the opportunity to use many full face masks and I would prefer
the AGA Divator may be cause I took the repair technician course offered
by OTS. The fact that you can take a course in field maintenance and rep
air is the best reason to chose or stay with the AGA .For a start I would
go back and have each one of your team members read the operators manual
again, you may be surprised at what a little enlightenment can do.
W.H. BEAL
6-17-02
The only problem that I have with AGA masks personally is that I have
narrow temples and with my pos.pres. mask I get a constant leak no water
just air leakage. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to stop the
leaks at my temples. I have tried putting fish tank airline tubing
inside the inner seal it helped some. As everyone has stated the AGA is
excellent we use ours with the OTS wireless com. system works great if
you train with it. All our traffic is recorded. There has been some
discussion about back up masks with full face masks. Our team policy is
if you have a failure of any type with your ffm you will abort that
dive and surface, if you must remove the mask switch to your alternate
air source pony/back up reg. and make a slow controlled accent. We train
doing this and to date we have had no problems. All our divers are
tethered with back-up divers at the ready we simply feel that if you
have a problem we can run that area again. The risk benefit is not worth
you continuing your dive if you do have a problem. The object will be
there when we run it again. Equipment maintenance is also an issue we
hunted several years to find a center that we trust to service our
equipment service and records are very important as is training sessions
documented. We feel that the AGA is an excellent choice for PSD work if
you train with it. We have standards for cert. FFM users that they must
meet to be allowed to use this equipment. And wireless comm works great
for us it allows more freedom and less lines for the tender and diver to
deal with. The idea of PSD work is to keep it as simple as one can but
still provide for safety and efficiency. I saw one team with a large
cable containing 4 lines 1-comm 1-rope -1- video & 1- surface supp. air
we watched them while we where taking a break they were so involved and
so bogged down that the diver could only run a very small area before
becoming exhausted. This looks more like commercial diving where the
diver doesn't move allot. As we know PSD work requires allot of
movement. So choose the right equipment for the job and keep it simple
use what works for you don't try to impress everyone with equipment that
is either too much or too complicated to use in these type of ops in
black water train blacked out. So evaluate your needs don't just try to
keep up with the trend, get equipment that works and train with it.
Darrell Harris Chief?PSD/EMT
Ryan Twp. Rescue
Barnesville PA
6-17-02
Darrell, You should try surgical tubing inserted just before the dive it
can be set in place to eliminate those annoying bubbles from your left
temple. You can to the easily get some on your next call and visit to the
local ER . We have also have one diver who is narrow minded (just kidding)
he found that a head band under his Viking hood just above his ears and
across his forehead worked best. I believe he uses a terry cloth tennis
head band . Sound like you guys have done your home work and are
continuously training. If you need some one to maintenance you AGA I would be
happy to send a quote for a contracted service agreement. I'm glad to hear
from a team leader who is up to par with reality in the PSD today.
W.H.Beal
6-18-02
Our team originally had the AGA masks and about two years ago we were given a
ocean reef mask to demo. After two months of rigorous donning and doffing and
use in all types of water that we dive in, we bought two. The team in general
did like the Ocean Reef Mask better. We now use the two ocean reef masks with
wireless com systems and use the AGA as backup masks. We did initally break a
lot of spider straps but with use and practice they very really break now. We
have not noticed a whole lot of free-flow problems with the mask and nose
blocks seem more friendly than AGA. A lot of die-hard PSD'ers would probably
shoot me not choosing the AGA though. But lots of training and use of the
mask, it has proved its worth. We have had no breakages of mask in two years
and 60+ dives on each mask. I would recommend the surface breathing valves
and the quick disconnect for the air hose. Our guys can change over to the
redundant air source with no problems with some simple out of water and then
in water training. So overall , team has been very happy with the performance
of the ocean reef mask.
Captain Mike Hansen
Lake St. Louis Fire District
Water Rescue Task Force
6-18-02
3/8 inch surgical tubing, should do the trick....
Good luck...
6-18-02
There are different type of materials the skirt can be made of. The black
silicone seal works the best we've found on narrow faces. Also InterSpiro
makes and foam seal that can be place on the outside of the skirt that can be
used.
Darrell Adams
HCUSRDT, NC
6-18-02
Our team spent several months evaluating before we went with the Ocean Reef
Mask. We looked at safety, simplicity(kiss) and price. While the initial
purchase price was not that far apart, the OR mask can be hooked on to our
gear and ready to go!. To hook up the Aga you still need to buy the
proprietary second stage hose(much more expensive than most).
Our team purchased the FFM's but each member uses their own gear. Since the
hose routing of the OR is the same as the usual demand valve regulators is
takes less than 30 second to convert to a FFM. It also retains the same hose
routing that we are familiar with and the purge valve is in the same place as
what most divers are accustomed(Aga feeds over the left shoulder). While it
is not that difficult to switch hoses and LP plugs it is more steps than just
changing the demand valve.
It was noted that the divers position could affect the cracking pressure.
This is true, but it does so in the same manner as the regular demand valve.
Our divers were already familiar with this from diving conventional scuba
gear, so it was not of great concern.
Then the cost of add-ons. The Aga has an add on weight kit to make it more
neutral in the water. As noted by another post the OR was made over since its
original debuted and is very low volume so a weight kit was not needed. A
surface vent can be added to both. Surface vent for the OR is at most $50.00
while the vent for the Aga can go for between $180 and $250.
I was told that the tabs and/or the mask strap would break. I purchased a
spare spider strap and attaching band. The strap was about $26 and the band
$16. That was two years ago - I still have the spares. The cost to replace
the visor is also much more affordable with the OR. The bottom line is we
were able to greatly increase diver safety, without breaking our budget.
As with any FFM. You must use them and train regularly. This has almost
completely replaced my standard 2nd stage. Even for my sport diving. The
more I use it, the better it gets!
A quick note: While I noted it only takes a few seconds to screw on the FFM
to your hose. The quick disconnect really is the way to go. If you are
change seconds stages, the LP 0-ring on the hose will not last very long.
Mine was going about every 3 months. With the Q.D. the change is even faster
and I am not going through the o-rings.
Also, our team now keeps the storage shield in place while diving. It has a
no ill effect to our vision and can be replaced for $10. This keeps the
scratches off of your visor - even when finding rocks and stumps the hard way
in our beautiful black water.
Isn't it great we can all think differently. Otherwise we all would be diving
Mopars!
Sincerely,
Don Alan Ruschak
Mon Valley Divers,
Belle Vernon, PA
6-19-02
There is a reason that there is such a variety of equipment (such as
full-face masks) available: our likes and needs are not all idential.
Our team had sort of utilized the AGA for several years with limited
success. Some divers ha difficulty equalizing the AGA, some suffered mask
leak, etc. We recently swithed over to the Scubapro FFM, and while it is
too soon to say for certain, the majority of divers on the team seem to be
happy with the change. The separate oral/nasal cavities allow for normal
clearing of the ears by pinchinng the nose and also minimizes the build-up
of CO2 in the mask. Also the Scubaspro mask fits a wide variety of faces
(we have only one diver with a face too narrow for the Scubapro FFM and a
Mantis mask (very much like the Scubapro) filled the bill. Of course any
time you endeavor to put 25 people into the same gear there are bound to
be some differences in opinion. If we all thought, dressed and acted
alke, this would be a truly boring world!
6-19-02
I read your post regarding the SCUBAPRO FFM. Our team plans to Demo that same
mask. Can you please provide to me as much feedback as you can about this mask.
Does it have a surface valve? Does the Divator mask have (in your opinion)
any major advantages over the S-pro mask. Thanks for you time.
WES DIXON
6-19-02
By "surface valve", I assume you are referring to a fresh air valve that
will allow the diver to don the mask while breathing fresh air as opposed
to breathing off his air bottle. The answer is negative. However there
are a couple of ways to accomplish this: 1- The second stage regulator
attaches to the Scubapro mask by means of a heavy duty plastic screw in
coupler. The mask can be worn in place with the second stage removed
while on the surface. The problem that may arise here is that in a hurry,
the second stage could possibly be cross threaded into the mask. 2- The
method that I would recommend is to have the diver topside place the
spider on the back of his head with the mask itself sitting atop his head.
when ready to enter the water, he simply pulls the mask down onto his
face and into place, adjusts the spider straps, and goes. We are
utilizing Divelink communicators with these masks and have found that the
mounting of the Comm. unit on the spider makes this method of mask
placement the easiest.
Again, let me make another assumption, and that is that the "deviator" is
an AGA mask. This being the case, we have found the Scubapro mask to
offer the advantages of ease of clearing and overall comfort. Some of
our team members have utilized the AGA extensively and were initially
reluctant to switch to the Scubapro. However after a little experience
with the new mask, had nothing but praise for it. The big advantage of
the Scubapro mask is the limitation of CO2 build-up. We have had divers
complain of headaches with the AGA FFM - no such complaints (as yet
anyway) with the Scubapro FFM.
Neither the AGA FFM that we were using, nor the Scubapro FFM are positive
pressure masks as the environs in which we dive do not presently necessitat
e same. If this is a requirement for you (contaminated water diving), AGA
does offer a positive pressure feature that Scubapro presently does not.
Hope this helps.
6-19-02
Our team started using the SCUBA PRO ffm with dive link comm. this year. We
have nothing but praise for it as well. It's rugged, simple to use and
clean, and lower volume compared to other ffms we've used.
As for the "Surface Valve", we have found that just cracking the bottom of
the mask from your chin allows us to breath without using our back gas.
Stay Safe,
Lt. Jeff Burchfield
Blount County Sheriffs Office (TN)
B.S.O.R.T. Director
6-20-02
Curious, the reference of CO2 and the AGA (Interspiro Divator II). There's
no way you can have a build up in the mask. There is a one way flow of gas,
which also prevents fogging, so there is no way to get any significant build
up of CO2 in the mask (tested and proven by NEDU) The gas never doubles back
on itself. If your divers were experiencing hypercapnia related headaches,
I'd guess skip breathing was the problem. As for not diving in contaminated
water, if your sneaking up on human remains that have been in the water for
any length of time, then you're diving in a biohazard.
The demand regulator configuration for the AGA still maintains a positive
pressure in the mask. Dive it and slide two fingers in the temple, no water
comes in, only gas out. Either version of the mask is still the driest mask
on the market.
One thing about the mask, you do have to learn how to dive it. Improper
donning of the mask is the biggest problem. Properly used, and with
additional face time in the mask, the more you like it. I use the same
amount of gas with the demand regulator mask as I do with a bite mouthpiece.
Dive safe...
John
6-20-02
Myself and one other diver on our team trialed the Ocean Reef Mask and the Aga
mask at the Fall Dive in October of 2000 and both of us preferred the comfort
fit of the Aga verses the Ocean Reef. We have yet to try the scuba pro or the
Exo masks. We have tried two wireless comm's and found that the push button
while requiring a free hand to operate was better than the voice activated. I
believe that for most of our diving we will be planning on the OTS wireless
system, with the normal tether tug system as a back up .
Both masks we tried were fit on us buy reps, the Aga just fit our faces better.
As for the breathing free air verses scuba, Ocean Reef was better, but Aga was
OK.
I have budgeted for our purchases this coming year, but want to try the Scuba
Pro and the EXO with my guys before making any decisions.
Any specific issues with the EXO 26 or the Scuba Pro masks would be greatly
appreciated.
Shawn Connery
Dive Captain
Mystic Island Vol. Fire Co. #1
Little Egg Harbor Fire Dist. #2 Dive Team.
6-20-02
Thanks for exploring this topic. I too, am interested in others'
comparisons of these masks. Our team uses AGA's with good results, but I did get
to try an EXO once for a brief pool session. I really liked it, but the "test
drive" was too short (and too shallow) for a proper comparison. For what it's
worth, I did notice that it seemed easier to use the comm. gear in the EXO.
Steve Petty
Commander
Davis County Sheriff's Search and Rescue Team
6-20-02
You get what you pay for when it comes to the Ocean Reef and the AGA. For
awhile we thought the Ocean Reef was a nice alternative to the AGA which at
that time was priced over $700. We put ten of them into our training
programs and used them for about a year. I had one personally.
After a year we got fed up with small parts breaking. For example, while
washing the mask if you dropped it from less than a foot from the ground,
the exhalation cap sometimes cracked. The tabs that held the spider in place
broke sometimes. We sold them and had to deal with people calling us for
small parts. It wasn't worth it anymore. We sold all our used ones and went
back to AGA.
The Kirby Morgan mask is definitely interesting. It is priced competitively
with an AGA but in a sense is much less because it has a built in surface
breathing vent (the bottom half with the regulator second stage is removable
and easily put back on). It is very comfortable. I like that you can adjust
the flow rate, just as you can with the EXSO - same second stage. We're
still playing with it. Dave Holland recently showed me how you can insert
and install and OTS hot mic into it. Very cool.
The issue of it being less capable for contaminated water than a pp AGA is
still not settled. I have heard both sides from people I respect.
that's all for now,
Andrea
6-20-02
John writes that you can't have a CO2 build up in an AGA - I think he is
talking about when one is breathing from the regulator - not the Gill.
If you are breathing from the Gill I believe you can have a CO2 build up
- you are not getting gas from the regulator, only from the small hole
at your temple. What vents out the CO2 outside the oronasal cavity? We
have routinely watched divers become out of breath just sitting, and
quickly become out of breath when surface swimming when using the Gill.
The same does not occur when breathing from the regulator or an SBV.
John is right that donning is important. We highly suggest not to do it
the SCBA way of putting the mask on the face and then pulling the spider
back over the head. That pulls the hood back, rips off hood vents, takes
effort, and takes longer. We have found simply holding the bottom two
straps of the spider, one in each hand, and then pulling the spider over
the back of the head, and then placing the mask on the face works
alleviates all these problems. It also allows the diver to keep the pony
regulator in his or her mouth for a longer period of time. Tighten the
straps middle, bottom then top with no more than 2 inches pulled on the
top.
Headaches can also be caused from too much buoyancy in the mask and hood
that fills with air if no hood vents are in place.
cheers,
Andrea
6-21-02
Our team has been using EXO26's for several years. They are a top
quality mask, built rugged. The biggest problem we have found is they
were not really designed for PSD type work.
Our EXO's are very comfortable when in a vertical position in the water.
These masks were designed for a more stationary, vertically oriented
commercial diver doing tasks specific work that doesn't require a lot of
head movement or peripheral vision.
I have had the opportunity to use an AGA a few times and found they were
much more suited for PSD work, especially for teams with firefighters
who are used to wearing and breathing from SCBA masks. We are
S-L-O-W-L-Y transitioning to AGAs as our budget allows.
I would never bad mouth EXO, I just think they are not the best tool for
the job with some of the other products on the market - for public
safety diving.
Hope this helps.
Chris Adams
Dive Team Coordinator
COMM-FD
Centerville, MA
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